Mike Rafferty, Alligator Trapper

well we had a nice uh break from our events here at the Flaggler Uh but we're back ready to rock and roll Uh we're starting off uh September with Mike Rafferty who's will dazzle you with his tales of alligators Uh going forward we'll have a panel discussion next month on November October 14th This is September or October Count my fingers Okay October 14th Uh be a panel discussion on Hope Sound So I look forward to seeing everyone back here then along with perhaps some of our winter visitors uh to join us and make this a little larger event each time Mike leave it up to you Do my best I'll stand for as long as

I can I do have my own old age problems too you know like y'all can call me Mike Last name is Rafferty Lived in Martin County just most all of my life okay And uh not used to speaking in a microphone to be honest with you But anyway um I used to do these talks they call them with a lot of classes for in schools They bring the children out to my facility we called it It was a a health approved meat processing plant That's where I processed my alligators uh we didn't use the word to be politically correct butcher but that's best you know and I that's one of the things that you'll see

and I don't want to mention any TV companies in this multi- treasure coast area they'll they'll expand upon the fact that this person got caught by an alligator and then it got relocated okay and I approached this company about this one time and he said well they did Mr Rafity he said they got relocated to this guy's processing facility Yeah but you know people used to call in and not they wouldn't think when I was doing it that that alligator gets killed right And um the alligator was how what we got to fulfill our eightpage contract which we had with the game commission I was not on the payroll okay We caught with what we

got So they were quite valuable at the time the uh farmers hadn't started getting into mass production so much and then they eventually ruined the market in my opinion But um so the alligators started being uh under a program It was called the nuisance alligator program The state developed to handle incidences where people felt and they were afraid of alligators being close to their homes and this and that Right Well it kind of got what I thought a little expanded too much All right And you'll hear me say things that are not necessarily derogative but it's just my opinion that it's not the way I wished it would be Okay And uh you know even

they got involved with the farmers The ranchers would say "Oh I got cattle out here and you know they're going to catch my cattle." And all this kind of stuff Well it wasn't up to me I didn't write the the um I call it a a warrant you know for a better word but it was a permit And they regulated it quite stringently uh even more so in the very beginning because restaurants used to have a license to sell the meat And all the boxes had to be sealed with a t a number that matched the tag that went on the tail And all these were called sides tags They locked on and they didn't

come off when you sold the skins And you should not get caught with an alligator without a tag on I'm going to tell you that right now And uh it's now a felony So I've been told to to have in your possession or killing it It could be a serious crime Um I'll get into the question and answers as we go along and unless you think there's something particular in that area that you want to discuss and we'll keep it going Hopefully I don't make you tired of listening to me But so that the alligator that's called the American alligator is one of 21 species of the crocodilian family There was only one place at

what I've ever seen in the whole world It's got all 21 species and that's at the St Alligator uh alligator farm Augustine St Augustine alligator farm up in St Augustine Okay Not only did they have at one time all of the species but they had one really really nice they probably still do uh about reptiles these snakes They got a room that's all conditioned in their you know air conditioned and controlled climate and everything All these different types of snakes Now some people hate snakes like they hate a lot of other things but they're safe if you go in there and want to see stuff that you probably never have seen before And I've thought

about going back myself but one thing that really caught me of interest there which is a little bit off the alligator side is they had a 19 and a half foot saltwater crocodile alive Okay And his name was Gomech All right And he was in a big big pin And he didn't move very much It wasn't People really didn't want to go knocking on the thing or you know whatever Maybe they did but I didn't see it But I was really impressed And at that time and when I thought I'd caught two of the biggest alligators that you could see around here which is pretty much true anymore was 13 ft Okay And so Gome's

mounted now They full mounted him out He's mounted for everybody to walk upside Hopefully they don't climb on him and ride on him but I'm sure they probably do Anyway last year I seen a picture and you can go into Facebook right now and look it up In 1956 I believe it was in Australia They actually caught a 28 foot crocodile Now there's a lady standing next to it to give you some perspective about how big these reptiles can get Okay And um I've heard stories about how big the American alligator can get right But of course a lot of people are all 10-ft alligators no matter if they're four foot or 5t long you

know when you once you get there Well I didn't get to look at him that close up I thought he was really bigger than that you know Okay But um the American alligator in all seriousness is a very high asset to the state of Florida Okay Even though yes people get caught and they get they do some stupid things sometimes and they know there's alligators in Florida when they move here All right And it happens seems to be on an annual basis like it just did recently a couple of weeks ago and I think it was either Martin or St Lucy County A doctor actually got in the water and got caught on the arm

I think well hey you going to go in the kitchen you might get eight Right So anyway the bad part about it is Mr Alligator is doing his thing just like the rest of everything's trying to do Survive right Lo and behold he gets destroyed if he does what he's supposed to do So you know I kind of have a hard time dealing with that anymore Think like how many alligators like that I destroy And you know you try to justify things all along the way too Everybody does it But to me my justification was well and it's true if I don't get him somebody else is going to kill him and he's going to

lay out there and rot So basically I ought to make something out of it and have some full uses of it you know and uh which I did I went all out on making every bit of it useful as I could And the alligator in Florida is serves a lot of purposes People have no clue about what his natural purposes are And I may leave out a few of them but we have what's called the dry down time in Florida when you don't get any rain You know how the grass gets all brown and all that stuff The water table goes down Well Mr Alligator he'll get out there and he'll waller a hole out

there and the water will drain down to his hole Well a lot of fish survive and the birds eat a lot of the minnows okay He'll bur borrow a cave and get back in this cave and he'll live in there that hot time and he's got a great food table for himself at that at that period but he's also helping the birds and the fish and all the rest of the stuff to survive as well Um then you know there's also his monetary value which I think that's being stepped on pretty hard right now That's just my opinion and it's been that way for quite some time But anyway uh the skins you can see

the the beautiful skins I can show you these right here These are full alligator boots that I had custom made Okay And uh the lady made these for me all the way up I just had them redone the soles on them and uh some some repair work done on them just to make them look nice for you all tonight And um so they they are quite a valuable leather good product is what I'm pointing out at And the skins this came off of an 8ft alligator It takes four square feet to make a pair of full boots Okay Bottom is a foot the top the top half is a is a a foot also And

you'll notice the different patterns on the inside of the boots I did that intentionally because you want something that's a soft leather when you're wearing it but strong And then on the outside is the larger pattern So this on this side is along the belly Okay Along the side right along in here Okay And then the the under under part of that is the belly Sorry if I confused you on that I sometimes confuse myself A question about the boots Yes ma'am Why aren't you wearing them tonight They don't fit me any longer Once I got old I shrunk about a inch and a half right And some of that went to my feet I

guess they spread it out to I tried to put them on tonight It's a good question I said "Man I can get in them but they're so tight you know." Well down here in Florida be honest with you too I never wore them that much Only because they're so heavy Okay And the heat down here is so hot Okay And you know most people don't know and see it when they see a a nice pair of boots what they're made out of or check it out It's not really a anymore How Pardon me Does it breathe Does it breathe Uh no They really don't breathe No No They're not forgiving that way I'm sorry But

Liz you know that I had on my on my um uh shop I had an office where I had the processing going on and I used to take the skins to a company over in Sebring custom tanning they were called in Sebring And the guy gave me a whole bunch of little pieces of different types of skins from all different types of animals from fish to lizards to uh manatee all these kind of I put all this stuff on my wall and the kids would love to come in here and look at all of this stuff right And one of the toughest leathers which beat the alligator okay was it was not a manatee is

talking about the uh the big manatees that swim like that I'm talking about that you know it's got the maybe it's the wrong word but the the long a stingray I'm sorry is a stingray Okay that is the toughest hardest skin that you can get is off that stingray You know anyway uh this part of the skin of the alligator is on his back Okay there's a there's a scientific word that the biologists give to it but us old crackers we used to call them scoots Okay that's these little bony square sections in here And if you had one that you could see without the skin on Boo loan me this one I guess I

don't know where he got it from Maybe me But these are really po these are really porous Okay And uh what that does is this is actually the alligator's heating pad You would think it's armor for fighting but that's not it helps probably a lot in that aspect But it helps that helps him digest his food because he'll swim up high on the water when it's like in the springtime or in the winter time just to help that temperature go higher in his body because he's a reptile you know and he wants to digest the food So it serves a good purpose And I used to get the bigger ones out like this And I

used to uh but debone them so they look you know really nice and clean And a lot of people have no idea what they were And I' I'd sell stuff like that too Um some of the other things that like I sold this to Boo He he's a good he's a good hoarder by the way everybody that knows him you know So he's he's kept it all these 50some years probably It's a beer mug It's what intended for you know but a lot of folks have put them made them into like uh flower for flowers and stuff like that And um now this one here you see it now It's not this is about the

same size as my foot right now That's about a 10-ft gator right there Okay You go over here to the museum which I encourage everybody to do not just to look at the alligator products but as you walk in the main door there's a real alligator there Now I mean it's a 13t alligator I donated to the museum And it's well preserved okay And behind it are also two feet They might have even brought them over here but and they are here They are on this side over here But uh they have a good What I'm getting around to is everything on that alligator has a uh contribute to the value of this alligator in

one way or another to Florida I'm you know how many people want to see an alligator you know oh come here look at this alligator look at the alligator you know then they turn around when neighbors walking their little dog oh that thing's got to go sad you know 4 foot and above and they let they they got to go they got you know that's what they were minimum of four feet can't relo could not relocate them at the time that I was in there that was their then policy and it's changed um I talked to to a trapper now over on the lake one day I helped him catch about 11 foot gator at

the marine in Pokei and he said "Mike things are different now." He said "We can take these gators and there's a guy out there and he's got a a piece of property He's got a got a lake on it and he's licensed to do it and all this stuff and you know they're paying us now to to uh we get we sell it to this guy and he'll have people come down here and hunt them for $1,000 or whatever." I said What He goes "Yeah." He said "And they give us a book now with so many permits for a like a place like this where these gators are frequently to show up and we come

by when when the owner here tells us come by and get them and boom boom boom boom boom." I said "Wow." Well we'll get into this more of a money thing a little bit Okay that's another thing I don't I got a little bit different of opinion on But anyhow then the first thing that people do is they come up to me and I catch an gator cuz I'd have them secured and taped up and then they want to come down and you know I'd give them a lecture when I'm catching the alligator too I'm telling you what you get in one of these adult communities you get a crowd before you know it Now

can anybody guess what the first question is that they're going to ask me What's it feel like He had his hand up first but ladies are first right Yep What would you say ma'am What's it feel like How do you catch the gator Nope Will he bite What do you do with him Well you know my answer was now I got a sense of humor now Okay now I try to have a sense of humor right I said well you know ma'am I says we get caught with the alligators and we'll take them home and skin them and we sell them each of these restaurants and you know what them Yankees will come down here

and they'll eat anything So anyway they got a kick out of that But if you want to talk about the meat okay we had a doctor leaks at the University of Florida did a study in combination with not only the nuisance alligator trappers association which I belong to there was 52 of us and the alligator farmers They wanted to promote the alligator It's meat okay And products just like anything else you get promoted Without the skin on the chicken okay meat for meat the alligator had about 1/4 the cholesterols than what the chicken did So it was a healthier meat And then another person would ask me "What's it taste like?" Come on Okay Well

guess what Chicken It's It's everybody Yeah Okay It tastes like chicken That's That's most of the time people would ask it tastes like chicken right What did the chicken taste like before he had his fe feathers taken off Right No Um the thing was and I told him I said "Look I've got a 102 a book with 102 recipes in it for alligator The trappers association got all these recipes by all of us trappers We made a book I don't think you're going to find the book anymore but I've got a copy of it And all of these recipes led to a couple things First thing was you have to whatever you season it with

to give the flavoring whatever you tenderize it with what contributed And then also um you know the size of the animal also If you ate a little 4-foot tender alligator it was delicious Now you didn't have to do much tenderizing Yeah Just fine But you get a 12 10 foot 12 foot old bull alligator right like that and he's kind of tough You got to do some tenderizing and you know got to marinate it and all this kind of stuff right Well one thing led into the other and I started I started the first gourmet alligator product business in this country Okay And it you are not going to guess the name of this business

but I had my own logo and all that stuff And it might even be and it probably is in that book in there You can see myself and the guy that was preparing all these products for me His name was Ralph Garber's over at Mr Mrs Peter's smokehouse over here The name of the product was alligator bites Okay Anyway the game commission did not like that picture that I had put in the Star magazine You know they said "Why would you do something like that?" You know cuz they like good public perform They didn't like showing a dead animal I said "Well hell." I said "You let people drive around with a deer laying on

top of their truck Why not an alligator?" He goes "I see your point Mike but you know." I said "Okay well it's too late now." He goes "Yeah." I said "So anyway we made a whole lot of products My I had made he made for me a smoked pate you know the dip that you can get like fish dip That thing went off like rockets I mean it got international attention once that magazine picked up on it And I'm taught serious I went into Japan I got offers from Japan to put it in their magazines for free And then which is smart the way they did it because if you prescribed to the magazine as

a prescriber on a regular basis you had first offer for 30 days to contact me to make me a business proposal At the end of 30 days it was all fair game right Well at that time you couldn't get enough product enough meat to keep up with the demand I had a distributor the uh company here in Steuart Serno take it all over the place A lot of it went down to Palm Beach Polo Club I sell it in 4B tubs It went like this I had uh called uh Gator balls you know rolled them up into balls You know what are you I don't know what you're thinking of man But anyway and and

you know you deep fry them And I made that out of 60% alligator and 40% pork along with progressive Italian style uh breadcrumb Uh one egg I'm sure you're going to go out and try some of this Be frozen Yeah I would take the the dark meat off the alligator which is a lot less value than the white meat Okay It was about $2 a pound at that time Now and the white meat was $4 a pound So I raised up my value using the dark meat Okay And I substituted to give it flavor the good flavor with the pork because it really didn't have that Remember I said there wasn't much flavor in it

Well this gave it the flavor And I came up with that combination We rolled them into little balls about this big I put them on these trays on these trays and I slid them into the freezer froze them Put them in five gallon ziplockc bag I mean gallon ziplockc bags and put them into fiveb boxes Okay Then when I'd go to these pow-wows I used to do pow-wows for the mkasuki and the seminal tribe before they got all their monies up in Melbourne And I had them lined up at I'm in deep I had gators and ters boy and a soda for five bucks They wouldn't get but one of those little paper cup things

They just wanted to try it Okay And I'm telling you what I'm stuffing that cash in now Just I got my money back So I made some money that way right So that was that worked out well But another thing that contributed to Mr Alligator you know and what parts dark meat and what parts white meat That's a good question Uh see a lot of people just think you eat gator tail right Now the gator tail is about 40% of the white meat All right And the way they got that word was that the poachers used to go up there and just chop that tail off and boogie get out of there right Real quick

and easy to skin the tail out No big deal Working it and they're gone Well the other white meat and I'll leave that dark to meat to the last The other white meat is the jowls these big old cheeks right here All of the neck okay All the way around And then also like on on down the back straps you get like you do on any animal The back straps inside on the chest under the ribs Okay Now that finishes up I think pretty much everything but the dark meat The dark meat came off the legs Okay And then there was another section of dark meat I think it was on the lower part of

the ribs Okay But then also Disney World started catching on to this fever about alligator being ate in Florida Now Louisiana was bad about it too I mean we're good about it but they wanted ribs Okay if you can barbecue a rib a rib is a rib right A bird is a bird Well the ribs were good too I didn't sell Disney World the ribs okay because another I think the farmers were into that pretty good But uh that picked was it actually see the alligator meat was pretty much a what would you call that Not a teaser but a novelty A novelty Thank you Yeah You get some answers right Go sir How do

you catch the gator Like if you're doing it by yourself or do you have two people do it How do you catch the gators like by yourself or like how do you do it like with two people No I'll get into that in just a minute I'm about done with the meat products Right That's a lesson on the meat All right So we'll solve the meat deal That's that way Um and so the the white meat was more preferable because it didn't have the sinnos in it and all that stuff You had to do more work with that run it through a grinder and things Okay But that's that And then other words other words

you never wasted anything from the claws you see like this to uh this is made by Native Americans called Dough Weeden She made earrings for me and all that And I I would trade the feet cut off the feet and I gave her a whole 55gallon barrel at one time And uh she made me whatever jewelry I wanted So uh so jewelry became involved with it too Back scratchers We had paws made back scratchers with Yeah But now you know you go into these truck stops and stuff and you see these little small alligator heads Well they're a freeze made with a freeze drying machine I couldn't keep up with a freeze drying machine alam

mine done was with with uh what do you call that Um it's real carcinogenic formaldahhide Okay You got to be real careful with that So I made all these alligator heads you know but like for one for Boo and this other guy here and and um that was good We'll get into some meat of trapping now Okay All right Well I did for 17 years I can still count them all on my fingers Right So I did good there But uh we didn't have any schools to go to at that time They got us old folks that been around here forever and wanted to catch alligators And they'd ask you too and said 'Well how

do you know how to catch alligators I know you had to say was I was raised up in Indian town you know Are you still doing it No I got a wife and family and you know hey okay I got I own an electrical company People don't know that about me I own an electrical corporation for 12 years I did this on the side There was not enough money into it to do it for a living okay Trust me But it had a good nighttime You got you got offers to go out where you got the permits to go out to on these ranches okay Excellent fishing And your permit was good for like 90

days And it was and it was renewable That was the best part right So you could go on these gated communities when the people got gators out there Oh man look at the fish out there I'll have to fish a little bit to draw that alligator out of that culbert right It works So you know but you got to when when you got a complaint you got to respond to it Boom If you don't respond to it the gator's probably gone down the canal and somewhere else aggravating more people right But depends on the time of the year how much movement they do Okay And it's good You get the people lined up and you

say "Hey next time you see this gator if you didn't see him then you got next time you see this gator or when was the last time you seen this gator right Oh he was here this morning He's here every day Oh he Well he'll be in my house next the next day Okay You got to learn how to treat and find the gators because every trip you make costs gas Remember they're not paying anything for you so you better get good at it Well they wanted you to use live capture Okay I'm like hm this could be a challenge You know I've never wrestled an alligator in my life We just pulled a trigger

you know then you skinned him back in the day I mean so I heard these guys did that right So so anyway the uh uh the live capture part was there's nobody told you how to live capture an alligator All right Now I was 16 a juvenile so I could tell you the honest to God's truth When I was a juvenile I borrowed my mother's car which was a 66 LTD right And we found a gator with a rope going I said "Hey bud Come here man We're fishing." I said "What's this?" He said "Mike that's a gator on a hook." He said "I know whose it is too." Now that's how bad the poaching

was right And so he showed me and I I learned how to skin from another a younger guy He was only 14 and his uncle did it with a cave on the side of his old 54 right You know how all you could find this stuff out But anyway the uh you learn how to capture what a what a gator will do how he'll move Okay And all that stuff takes time You don't pick it up overnight And you got to learn a lot of stuff your own things you got to figure out how to do which I have to do me a little pat on the back for that one because if you don't

you're not going to be doing it too long right And um so you can't use a fire you could use a firearm under certain circumstances but you think about that right Most of these alligators that are complained about are in people's neighborhoods They don't want a trap running around with a rifle you know shooting in neighborhoods right Causing problems you know I mean you know scaring people all that kind of stuff and seeing things killed and blood and all that No they don't want to see that They want him to be picked up and taken on out the humane way all taped up Then you pull the trigger you know So anyway uh yeah but

I I got into a little bit of a disagreement with him one time Wasn't bad I got supposedly a letter put in my file which is the only time some guy calls me up and he says "Can you come and get some of these uh what do they call these geese?" He said they were great big geese you know He said "They don't keep me up They honking all by my window and all by my door." I said "Well let me find out." I said "Let me looked them up." They're non-native to Florida right Non-migratory geese you know And uh so African geese they were called African geese right And I said "Who owns them?"

He goes "Nobody." He said "But I'll pay you $100 just to get them out of this pond." I said "I'll be there tonight." I got them you know but dog gone it some kids make it out on the back porch seen it done and they just got all mad about it and everything like that But I did get my $100 and got called on the carpet for it And I said he said "Well you're all right." He said "It's not against the law to take a non-native you know whatever." He said "You're alqaeda." He said "I'll just say I'll put a letter in your file." I said "All right." So got out of that one

Shoot them all or what You How did you get rid of them How did you get rid of them Secret Are you kidding me Did you ever eat any geese before What's that A goose Yeah they're delicious Yeah They really are So you know I mean for me I have no problem with any of that stuff If it's good to eat I eat it you know I mean hey and if it ain't good to eat I'll make it good to eat So but anyway uh you could use hooks or you could use there's a bunch of messed lines You'll see it on that on that TV show which was all hyped up which is you

know where they got those guys down in the swamps Louisiana and they catching these alligators behind these big shark hooks and all that kind of stuff I never did like doing that Okay I could do it in a unique situation but when I rode up there I wanted to get my gator and go on down the road I don't care if it took me an extra hour or so to do it you know And um so you a lot of guys and I don't mind this is a good way with a rod and reel They got like an 8ft rod like a and then with a what's called an ugly stick It bends really good

and I had a good pen reel 750 You can cast on out of there across the you know the pond and get it on the other side and sink it into him Now that's a real good fight right there Okay Depending how big the gator but either way it's still a good fight you know and you get him on the bank get a noose around his neck pull him up there and then get on him and tape him up and tie him up you know and um all by yourself Yeah Yeah I only nearly got bit one time Okay And I was I was You make a mistake you know I had my I'd get

my Jeep pulled up next to the pond where it was at and um I'd get the gator company uh what do you call that Um used to me Okay Like I was out there and I could I'd be fishing just like anybody would be fishing and I could even catch fish at the same time Remember I told you it worked But then I had my full lay next to me that I could catch Mr Gator with too So anyway you get you get to pulling that that fish up out of the water He's going to be interested That guy's fishing I might get me a fish right Throw it on the other side and snag

him right And it worked Uh but it didn't work in some of these ponds that have the hydrillaa the heisens trees you know that's not a good place So uh we I did came up with a and another buddy of mine that was a trapper I got him the job came up with this great idea of creating bombs Okay nonex non-exlosive bombs right a bleach jug Okay a bleach jug because they're harder than a milk jug Take about 50 feet of line I won't tell you what kind of line because I don't want anybody imitating it Right And you had to know the right size hook And you don't have to write the right size

bait because the bait I use would float on top of the water Okay It smelled nasty But for an alligator that was a Big Mac attack Okay I wrap that line around the beach bleach jug and then I just where I'd seen him go down I'd sling that bait out there and let it whap hit the line and then we'd leave come back in about 30 minutes that gator had done come up most of the time a big mac right swim over swallow it down then all I have to do is take my reel that that catch gator with and cast it over the line where that went off the jug right and then catch

the line and reel it up to the jug and here we go get the jug and get the rope in my hand line slide the noose over the rope get it around his neck and tighten that and then I used to could be able to buy these selflocking snares I couldn't ever find them Last time I went gator hunting right from with my cousin this is back in about four years ago on the lake He got drunk I couldn't find those self-locking snares You once you get on them they won't come off But these new ones they got they'll slide back and forth I didn't like that But those self-locking snares you can get it

around the neck pull them out And the thing is you have a pipe For people that don't know the pipe goes down the down the rope and on the cable holds a noose open Okay It says you can slide it under there When you pop the rope at the end of the pipe it draws the cable tighter and around his neck Well the first thing Mr Alligator's want to do he's wanting to bite with the hicks got him around the neck right So he'll chomp that pipe and then he'll go to rolling doing that 360° spin he does They call it the the death roll Okay And um they'll they'll tire out real quick Okay

So that's one of the things I learned quick about an alligator He's strong real strong stronger than me the bigger they are But they tire out quick So I let them fight themselves Once they tire out okay and I can get him up next to a tree I' I'd come around and I'd push their jaw shut step around get over his back grab his jaw and shut him up like this I use electrical tape and taped his mouth up And then I' do like they do these ice agents do them What do they call them foreigners Okay The ice agents with the they do this to the foreigners That's what I would do But the

u So then we I had a truck all set up depending on the there's pictures in this in this mag binder over You'll see a lot of pictures and I will gator Jeep You know it was a postal Jeep that I bought for $800 and drove it for eight years Okay I custom built it with a rack to hold a boat on the top and I had rollers two rollers I got like about two a foot and a half wide each and I'd run it down to the back with the front and I had a winch on the truck so I could run the winench over it and down on the ground and drag the

gator up on top of the truck It was a really big gator alive right And uh I could put two 10-ft alligators on top of that truck that little Jeep and I'd have their heads hanging out the front when I'm coming back from Okachchobee on the necks right here hanging on the front We pulled into a breakfast place one time to get breakfast after we'd hunted all night Right Of course I'd put those rollers on top of them and then the boat on top of that and then I'd tie everything down right And I had a rail on the side so nothing could really come off Well we were sitting in there having breakfast one

day and these people come walking by in front of the Jeep right These two people and you know what They didn't even see those heads on those big gators We about couldn't believe it I said "How can you not see these two big alligator heads sticking out of the front of this truck you know?" But there's a lot of good stories about Okachobee I won't get into all that right now but that was they let me talk about this a little I'll get back into the money part of it Okay When I first do when they first opened up the hunt on Lake Okachchobee actually they had a statewide they opened it up on what

they called harvestable areas Okay Where they the biologists went in and they did a study on a nightlight survey to see how many the how much of the population would be harvestable Okay So they come up with this magic number and the first year when they issued the licenses I got one Okay And uh which was nice No wait a minute Did I get one the first year I don't think so But I remember I had one of only five meat processing plants in South Florida which is means from Vero Beach all the way down through the Keys There's only five places you could take that alligator to get it butchered Do you think they

were smart enough to ask me how many gators I could process in a day or two days Right They didn't ask anybody how they were going to get their gators processed and where People got really mad Okay And I had to send a ton of people away because I I had only one table at that time Next year I did had two tables But it takes a lot of time to be able to process an alligators and there's a lot of work with getting the skins all ready and salted and everything put away the processing plant cleaned out But regardless the first year they had 15 tags You could catch 15 alligators with your license

Okay it was $250 for that license and $50 you could take an agent with you to help you And I think you were allowed two agents but I'm not for sure about that right Let's just say you're allowed one agent That's $300 okay for one license Well guess what It didn't take him long to figure out let's chuck chut it down to five tags instead of 15 That's too many for these people Right now mind you a lot of these guys oh they got onto this big time They said "Hell we can advertise all through the country and have people come down here and hunt gators We'll charge them a thousand bucks each That's $15,000

for 15 tags right?" Well there's liability involved and all of that kind of stuff but you know um some of them I'm sure they did it but you know where you don't take the gators to So what they did on the second year was when they changed or not they changed it after about maybe the third or fourth year I'm not sure they actually solicited to all the people that own seafood markets and places where they clean catfish and stuff like that on the lake Okay and never came by and asked me again well hey we're gonna bump it up and set everybody else up to do it No they didn't do that They just

forget old Mike you know doesn't matter So anyway I still added another table I gave it up on the second year I did I did the handshake business with people taking them on their word I got onethird of their 15 gators I got five of them At that time the gators were big They were healthy beautiful skins and h they were just sitting ducks man We could catch them just left and right Okay And that lake was so pristine at that time We went over and looked at the lake and the gators would come right out after dark and they get all all floated up on the top and they go swimming along real slow

and the minnows you could see I'd be behind the gator not with a light in his eyes but just where he couldn't see me but behind me cuz he wouldn't look into the light right He wasn't used to being looked at close up with a light at that time And that little gator would go chomp chomp chomp He's filling up his gullet with minnows There was so many thousands of minnows all around him That water was so clean and so pristine Unbelievable four year three or four years ago when I went with my cousin over there We didn't see the first we seen we got one alligator was like over 10 feet and one eight

foot We hardly seen any really really big gators at all And the ones we got were all drawn in They weighed probably a third a third less than what the other ones did Okay And the guy told me and I told you about that that trapper that I helped him catch that 11oot gator in that marina He said 'Mike it ain't like it used to be out here man.' He says "Ever since they built this concrete rip wrap all the way around from the shoreline all this," he said "what that hurricane come out here a couple years back went across it slammed so many gators up against that rock and killed so many of those

gators." He said "Nah." He said "You'll be lucky to find a big gator all the way from uh Port Maka clean on down to Canal Point." He says "Nah." He said "You ain't going You probably won't." He said "You might." But he said all the females had gone south down there around um I guess it was Belg There's a there's a name for that island He said you might find a couple down there because they followed the females down there But as far as nesting habitat goes through here he said no They pretty much wipe most all of it out So when you don't have any grass to the minnows to raise up in and

feed you know and the birds to have places to eat and all that kind of stuff it's sinful I think to drill in that lake like they did But that's just old Mike's opinion you know doesn't really matter But anyway that was one of the nicest places to hunt alligators at right there Um I'd like to speak a little bit about what's happening with all of Florida Okay And that because it affects the alligator as well And it and the alligator belongs here It was here originally and it still should always stay here But I think what you're going to see is like I was going to ask a question here Okay And I talked

to Gary over here I said "Let me ask this one question." Okay How many of you people have seen a wild alligator in the last year I'm talking about not on the news not in the paper actually went out behind a canal and seen here's an alligator That's impressive I wouldn't have thought I wouldn't thought thought four or five of you would have said it Okay Because of the loss of habitat I mean with the development being as intense as it is and it wasn't this intense when I was in it because especially in Martin County we have such large land tracks It's not like Port St Lucy with all the plotted lots when these

developers come in I mean it's like taking everything down to the bone pretty much you know and he's one of the things that pretty much get in the way trying to get it in another place and and they get crowded into things like the C-23 and places like that But the loss of the habitat and the nesting places is eventually the way they're working it now going to create a serious problem for a ton of species not just him I know along the whole east coast of Florida and I've lived over in Palm City since I can't tell you in 7080 about 80 or 81 somewhere's in there I'm seeing lost about 13 bird species

pretty much gone Okay And you ask himself now how many of y'all ever seen a bob white quail in your yard No Okay Well how many have ever seen a a thrasher in your yard No How many of y'all ever seen a a redwing blackbird in your yard Not around here Not around here You see what I'm saying Okay Well you could go on and on Like the bluebird is pretty much gone Uh you don't you can see some blue jays and some cardinals and you know sparrows and things like that but um the little morning dove You got the big dove but you don't have the little morning dove anymore He's gone Uh and

the metal arcs I mean you don't see metal arcs out here anymore do you You know what a metal arc is Yeah Okay Oh it goes on and on and on right So I'm think like wow And now the gophers are being a big thing with all the bulldozing down of all these lots and they got a special program where uh you have what's called a bank okay Where only one landowner in this area has got a bank to be able to put the turtles on his place All right that the game commission has approved Got a big ranch because they're only allowed to put so many that'll make it work He gets I think

it was a thousand or $2,000 for I think it's two to be allowed to bring that turtle and put it on his property And the guy that catches them he gets good money So you're talking maybe $1,200 for this guy to come out and catch it Another $2,000 to put it on there That's about $3,200 So what happens to Mr Turtle He's going to get run over or plowed over right That's the same That's a sin I seen one day not too long ago a turtle a gopher turtle with a totally pink shell on him Somebody had painted him pink I said "What in the is this all about?" And I said "There it is."

They want him to be seen when he's crossing the road so he don't get smashed So anyway that gets a little carried away I'm sorry but um we'll do any questions and answers right now before y'all get too tired of hearing me Any Were you involved in uh finding the gator back in 93 that attacked that kid on the Lockachi River I was I was involved in two fatalities Okay Robert Krespio which was up on uh Fort St Lucy Boulevard in that boat ramp uh close to the right in Port St Lucy there by the marina by the bridge That big bridge that goes over He was just to the north of that bridge a

little bit And then I got involved one down in it might be the one I think you're talking about Big George they called him That was down in the uh uh what they call that Jonathan Dickson State Park back of Camper Nelson's lodge back in there Yeah I was in that I I uh I didn't I a deputy in Port St Lucy shot that gator But that was an interesting story I mean he I'm so sad as it was and it would already happened right The boy just got hit by this 12oot gator He got him carried him across the river and I know what gators do And he he'd laid he he laid down

went underneath and the boy was drowned And anyway the deputies are out there running back and forth and back and forth And you know the gator's going to stay down when they got boat traffic That's so I I called the uh GFC up at that time I said "You need to get somebody out here that's got a right size powerful gun." Okay Because one deputy come out there and shot at him with a pistol I said "No." So anyway wildlife officer came out there and he shot him with a rifle and killed him And that was bad But the other one was in the Jonathan Dixon and they my brother happened to be down there

visiting with me and I got the call to go down there and got the boat and uh they had already taken a young man out I think he was part of a boy scout team or something like that Baseball team one of the two and they had seen the gator back in there before There was a a wash out or an I with a sand there was a sandbar Okay And a cop had his his German Shepherd I think it was with him there They're doing the paddling thing for the Indian Town Road or whatever they did coming back through there It was a quite popular thing to do but they had stopped to get

on that cop and that dog had got there and and the gator had gone over the guy's legs that were still in the water to get that German Shepherd right And you could tell Big George because he had a knot on the side of his head Captain Scott was the guy that ran the park at that time and he described the gator to me so I knew what it was and uh where it would be and all that stuff But they let it stay because it went for the dog It didn't bother people That was why if it had bothered the the cop or something like that and they thought it was aggressive towards people

he'd have been gone But it went it went after the dog The guy got the dog Okay He saved the dog anyway Um the water was only about yay deep One deep You could see all the way to the bottom Okay And this wildlife officer he wanted me to go back there in my boat I had one of those gusso at the time That's my favorite boat Uh I left the motor on it just to act as a rudder exterior for it because you couldn't gas power through There was too many limbs and trees and stuff We had this news guy that wanted to go with us right A cameraman I didn't I didn't care

if he won or not as long as he didn't interfere with me getting this gator And the officer he's he's whatever I said "Okay but you know I'm not reliable for you either." He said "All right." He took all of his equipment out there and anyway we got back in there where it supposedly happened at and we didn't see the gate but we knew it was right there Okay And uh like I said the young man would they already taped the little boy out And so I said 'You go down there And he had a rifle I said 'I'll stay down here If he comes up I'll look for him because a little distance not

too bad Sure enough the gator came up right in front of him Okay And boy the first thing he did oh Gary boom shot at the gator you know with his rifle It's funny because he missed him I mean how do you miss a head that big in front of you You know he must have been shaking awful bad right Or drew it too quick and pulled too quick but he missed him I said "Oh okay." So the gator all he did was go back down And I said "All right." So I knew where he was I knew the gator was just going to lay on the bottom And I had brought with me a

what's called a 44 caliber bang stick I don't know if you all know what that is right It's bad dude One pop of that you're gone And I had emptied the whole boat out and I had just enough of a paddle or a pole I had a pole with me right I could pull that boat along because the water was flowing And sure enough there he is I stuck my pole in the ground I held the boat and I wretched over and I went boop getting him here because about three or four feet down right Boop Bubbles come up He's done Boy I throw that rope Gary hold my boat man down the water got

a rope around his neck and next thing we know had that gator loaded over the back of the boat the hull of the boat It's getting on towards dark And so uh I'm sitting on the front I had a trolling motor That's how we got back in there with a trolling motor and a battery battery And Gary's sitting behind me on the seat up there And the newsman was behind us there Well guess what the news guy He didn't get a clip out of that deal Was all got everything he got was wet Okay But here goes my bad sense of humor again Right This guy the only room we had for him was he

could hang his feet over the the hull of the boat like this here and hold on to this side He had to be drugged with the boat along the side Okay The outside of the boat right So I looked down at Gary and I winked at him I He goes "Yeah." I said "Hey Gary look up here There's a really big gator up there man Look at him He goes "That guy was trying to get in the boat." No I was just messing with you Anyway anyway we got that gator and I think I forget how big he was He was big but he was really skinny too Okay Um they get really hungry after

mating season you know And people ask me "Well how big of a gator will hurt a person?" That's one of the I said "Well look it's like this You take a 10-foot alligator that might weigh 400 pounds okay And you take it with a young child that's only going to weigh 75 pounds He can grab that child and pull him down without a problem right But you take a 4ft alligator that might weigh 40 lbs and you take a 200lb man he can't pull that man down So it's got to get that balance point when the alligator's big enough to pull the person down I I use a magic number because I know how much

gators change in weight sizes An eight-foot alligator Okay but that won't help y'all figure it out because all alligators are 10 feet Remember they say from the tip of the nose to the eyes it's a foot for every inch Okay How many of you guys going to go out there and measure him Yes sir You had a question The guy behind you I was just Did you know Ken Holly Yeah Out in Indian Town Out in Indian Town Uh well Palm City actually He He was a big time infamous alligator poacher Never met him before in my life Sher People asked me "When's the last time you caught an alligator Mike?" I said "I don't

remember when the last time I caught a legal alligator." No Bad humor Okay Anything else Got anybody We'll go to the question and answer type of thing now Or if you want to know something else just let me know How many alligators can a mom have They're called a clutch Okay And typically it'll go between 20 to 40 You know uh now here's another good thing for the for the alligators What his value is the baby alligators like this okay They're not more than eight 8 to 10 inches long right They're a good food source for the male alligators will eat them Okay birds will eat them The large cranes and all that stuff will

eat them you know So they do and the turtles they'll catch them and eat them So I don't know what the survival rate is out of a clutch probably depending on the habitat but uh that's another way that they help the the whole deal work Of course down here you got so many sprayed ponds without any uh thing around but dirt you don't have much of a place for them to nest half the time in these adult communities But um uh we there was a program Okay Go ahead sir I have a question The um to what extent do you think the u the invasive pythons out in the Everglades are affecting the alligator population

if any They're affecting it Okay Um the the thing is to what extent Okay The biologists supposedly know a lot more of those answers than I do it cuz they're dealing with it now All right But so I've been told that it is uh seriously affecting it And let me give you an example about with the alligator right People will come out with this thing and say "Oh there's just too many alligators right?" No Nature has a way with dealing with this okay Either they're going to starve okay or kill each other or kill all the or uh they have a natural way of dying okay or they'll move away to different places to find

a food source Then they just can't run down to the supermarket and throw something on the table some plastic and get food They have to do it the hard way or they won't overpop populate Okay And that's going to be the same way with Mr Python He's he's worked his way up through South Florida now Just like the what do you call those big old lizards Uh iguanas Iguanas Yeah they're here Okay Along with a lot of other lizards and species like that are here Uh and you know it's like okay well maybe the big alligators are dealing a lot of the uh the snakes too Okay Maybe that's helped them in a certain extent

some way I know those lizards that are about yay long with the or orange head you know the males I talked to a buddy of mine up here He went to school with me I said he said "No Mike." He said "Then things," he said "they serve a good purpose." I said "Well I'd like to hear that What would that be?" He said "You know we got hawks that migrate coming down to Florida every winter." He said "When they come down here," he said "After they get here," he said "they clean up a lot on those lizards." I said "Okay." You know so nature takes care of itself is what I'm trying to say Okay

Except for Florida We've got 8 billion people in a lot in the humanity part of it And we're starting to overcrowd ourselves in different aspects That's why you're having all this violence and immigration and all that kind of stuff going on You didn't have that aundred years ago like that so bad But maybe that will take care of ourselves the same way nature's going to take care of a lot of other stuff unfortunately But who said it was kind Yeah Anybody else Yeah Um when you talk about nuisance alligators is it simply because it's on private property it's in a gated community or does it have to do something to prove that it's a nuisance

Now that's a good question and it's unfortunately got an answer that I'm not really pleased with um tips supposedly that's why the program came about They were to decide what whether it's a nuisance or not whether it's a threat or not Okay However I have gone on permits where the people complained that the alligator might eat the sandill crane What the heck is wrong with that picture Right That's what they eat That's their natural food source is a crane right That would be one of them And even if it's a four it has to be supposedly one four feet long or longer right And just because it lays up in your backyard that doesn't mean

it's threatening you It just has to do that to get the Remember they're a reptile They have to be kept warm That's how they warm themselves you know But oh they kill people there's oh this oh that you know until I think there's a lot of laxation on the permitting process okay and some people have a tendency according to some of these guys I know to exaggerate the size and so supposed so supposedly they go there and they catch it and they relocate it well we weren't allowed to relocate anything so what do you do well back then it was different so maybe they are relocating them and are allowed to locate them I don't

know that answer now okay because it's been a long time anybody Okay Yes sir What was what was the most difficult gator you ever had to remove in terms of catching them or um Well I had one It was called a ghost gator Okay I named him that cuz he I could hunt that gator and hunt that gator Never seen him I mean I knew how to hunt him too I'd hunt him at night I'd hunt him in the cold weather when I knew he'd be on the bank Right I had a gator one time was over in Piper not Piper Landing I had him in there too but over in um what the name

of that development is You go off the Murphy Road back in there It's Anyway it's on a golf course It was about a 9 foot gator Okay And I'd go over there and never see him Never see him Never see him Right He knew when not to be out And I asked everybody "Keep it guard Call me right away." Right This is before cell phones I you know I didn't have a cell phone I had a beeper then which I couldn't hear But so anyway uh I told my buddy I said "Larry," I said "We're going to go in here We're going to do some fishing." Okay Oh my god Oh what's the name of

that development But regardless it's just close to my you what I guess my lake's still there They've developed it so hard But we went in there with with uh my little uh a jig pole right And a rod and reel Each of us him in the back I'm in the front We caught 87 I think it was speckled perch in just about two and a half three hours So I said I got this gator figured out Well I'm fishing I said I know where he is He goes how do you know that I said think about it If he's not inside he has to be hiding in some place He said I said the only

thing left is these culverts off the golf course I said he's seen over there before more on that big golf course He said "You're right." So we went over in the golf course We found this drain on the golf course Sure enough there was air in the pipe but it having a big old heavy steel grates on it and went out to the into the pond and you couldn't see the the pipe there So it went a long ways till it got to that pond He'd go about that pipe and get his air through that drain pipe I said "Uhhuh All we got to do is wait now until we get one of those frog

choking They call them rains down here right And it'll fill that pipe up and he's got only one place to get air and that's up in this drain He'll have to stick his head into this drain and come up and get air I said "Then he's mine." So I backed my Jeep up there one day after that frog choker and I got my snare We got the pipe got the pipe lifted off of it and had the snare down over the drain was so when he came out his snare would always be in there He just nick his star sneering ahead in the news and I he did I just tightened up on it and

I had it tied off to my truck You could hear him plowing around in that pipe of that raisin cane Right And got him right close to that one was you all know where Cinnamon Tree is right Is that the ghost one Pardon No that wasn't the go I never did find that ghost No never did find him He disappeared But the other tough one I got one time was y'all know where Cinnamon Tree is right Okay most people don't know it but there they got a pipe It's a big tall pipe or I think it's two pipes maybe that go underneath US1 under through the medium all the way at the other side on

the east side of the on the west side of US1 It goes completely across right and me finding that gator was going to be just about impossible in that community So I don't know where they were seeing him at So I don't know who I went with but I said "There's a time I got to go up in that culbert and find him." I said "You I got one of them 500 foot spools of white rope." You know I tied it off to my side and I said "You pull me when I snatch that pulp Don't pull me down I just pull me out right Because I'm gonna have him in a rope." So I

got a lot of rope and that and I went through there as quietly as sure as I could And this was kind of spooky because he was a big gator right But the nice thing about Mr Alligator is once you get that noose around his neck his feet are like this and he's wanting to stop you from coming forward He's backing up trying to pull He is not coming at you He's backing up right So I let him I got once I got that noose on him and he started doing that death row like this here I'm pulling like this here My buddy's pulling me out of there you know I got out of there

and sure enough we had him on that rope then all we had to do is pull that heavy dude out of there you know we did and uh they once he tires out his legs are pretty like like go ahead and slide me out you know but the death roll is like a response to danger it's like if I put a roll around your rope around your neck and you started spinning okay you know that's the only thing they know how to do to try to spin and they got that pipe in their mouth now because it's got them around the neck which is what I wanted them to do But there's been a lot

of times like that that you don't feel comfortable doing it Yeah That death roll is that also part of their hunting technique when uh they're getting a larger animal Larger meaning a dog a cat or a deer Um what they do mostly is their favorite deal is just grabbing it and pulling it under the water and the water will take care of it Right The death role is if something's got them they'll just that's what they do They'll flip out right Uh because I never got involved with I knew what I did and what worked you know but the um the death roll they'll use that also if say meat's not mature for a nicer

word right And they'll grab something off and then roll it and try to break it and tear it off You know that's what they'll do with it Also um yes sir go ahead How do you tell us if you're gay male or female Okay that's a good question Um there's two ways I'll let you figure out one way but I'll tell you another way is is uh usually your females don't get much longer or even over I've only found one that reached over 8 feet Okay Everything after 8t is a bull alligator Okay And you get a bull alligator even if it's a smaller alligator and he's rolling and you know you can see what

is a male Okay At that time okay Well I don't know if I should tell that one or not but go ahead So alligator wrestlers I thought they were like the lizards that if you rub their stomach they would Well there's there's two myths about that One is you know people first off they think I'll put it this way Baby alligators I was talking a while ago Okay most people don't know it but they're born white Yeah they're born white You know how they get the dark that they are Just laying out in the sun I reel that one in didn't I No they're born to color But no the um this people ask me

"Well how do you catch them?" I said "It's easy You catch them slaying up on the sun on the bank and just sneak up behind them like you do a bird and pour that salt all down her tail you know and they can't move No it's not true either Damn I shouldn't be lying so much should I That's just bending the truth a little bit right Okay No the rubbing the belly when you put an alligator up on top back over like that I I've been told that it takes his brain in the socket it just like makes him unconscious and you can rub him like this right But by the time you get that

gator on his back okay and that part of him he's so whipped He you know he's you you don't need him on his back for one you want him on his belly Um yeah that's that's what you got to have him on his belly to catch him We had always read that if you could just get something you rubbed them you could calm them Yeah No you're not going to You're not going to calm an alligator down You're going to tire him down That's it You know he doesn't like to be messed with If you leave the alligator alone folks okay trust me unless you're in his kitchen he'll leave you alone Okay Now they're

known to get up on the bank and chase a dog and grab it and pull it down right Like that lady got caught walking alongside of the pond and a big 10-ft gator seen him and said "Oh I can run out there and grab her." I mean that was pretty bad I I I you know I just I do have dreams and and nightmares about alligators a lot you know you're going to have them after you did it for so many years right Uh with kids and all that kind of stuff It's not pleasant You have the after effects but you you learn to deal with it just like anything else you know But the

alligator people will say to me "Well Mike is it true that if you zigzag and run from an alligator you can get away from him right?" I said "Sir by the time you figured out that you got a zigzag and run he's done got your butt you know Yeah So yeah but supposedly that would help Supposedly Anybody else got any good questions Yes ma'am They climb a fence They climb fences I've seen pictures of that They'll walk They'll walk actually I mean they're you know they're they're predacious You know you you uh you got to think like the alligator when you hunt him right What's his food source you know where does he travel to

Uh how long's he been here Is he here just temporary So you got to look the area over But these alligators I went after one one time They dispatched me about a 9 foot alligator walking behind these apartment buildings Right time I got there he was close to this guy's screen porch and there's a big pine tree on the back of his lot just a few feet from the porch And the gator was just laying there because he didn't like all these people getting around him watching him like this here And he like "Okay I think he was going to ming season." And the guy's sliding gas doors were open on his porch And the

guy was standing there I said "That's your apartment?" He goes "Yeah." I said "I think I'd be hauling my butt around the front of that building going there and slide those doors shut before he gets into your house." He's like like "Really?" I go "Yeah." He goes he you know got in and he didn't have the nerve to get up to that glass door because that gator was right then on that screen on the outside of that screen right Well guess what the gator did Bad luck for him But he just pushed his nose over and pushed that screen right in like it wasn't anything to push out of the way He gets on this

guy's back patio now right Back porch So then what did I have to do I had to tie my um uh No I didn't tie it off then I just took my noose and I walked around the back of the house went through that guy's house right He's already hauled butt you know and I grabbed a garbage can I seen one of these plastic garbage cans you know and I wanted something in between him and me so I could get that noose over him and tighten it up on his neck right And that gator actually lunged up at me and grabbed the top edge of that garbage can and just wham wham wham shook it

like that I said "Oh my okay this is not fun." You know he settled it down but I still had the garbage can there you know and he just he just settled down I slipped that noose over his head and I popped it and let that thing lay down there and I threw the roof the the the rope out where that hole was like this and I gater meantime with that noose he's doing that roll and I slid the glass door shut ran around the building got my rope and tied it around that pine tree now I had him tied off he wasn't going in that guy's house right lucky he didn't break that glass

glass door you know but that wasn't too and anyway he asked me he said man he said I don't know what you get paid but he said it sure hell ain't enough you Yeah How about you Lisa Todd you got any questions No No I already know it all Yeah Lisa's mother used to live right next door to me when I moved in back from out of the military in Indian town right And uh this is a non-alligator story but you'll like it You'll like it Okay My kid was watching Superman just a little fell on Saturday mornings right This is when Clark Kent the old version right And I said Joey I said "You

like to watch Superman?" He goes "Yeah." I said I said "I can fly like Superman." He goes looks at me with this look I said "Come on I'll show you out back." Right Okay Take the little fell out back And I had this big silk oak tree in the backyard And I said "Joe you stand right here next to me right here." And I said "I'm gonna count three." I said "You got to watch close now because I'm gonna fly over that that sill goat tree." He goes "Okay." I said "All right it's close He's ready." He goes I said "One two." I said "Oh hi Mrs Boozer." I waved to her like this here

He looks over like this I ran around the tree and I laid on the ground on the other side You know he looks over at me I said "Hey Joe." I said "Did you see me?" He goes "No no." I said "Well come here I'll do it one more time." Now this is where she's she comes in Right She's just a kid then too Her mother was named Mrs Todd of course I said "All right Joey stand on this side of me this time right?" And I said "All right you ready Watch this time because it's going to be the last time I do it." He says "All right." I said "Ready?" Yeah I said

"One two." Oh hi Shirley Cuz he knew it He looks over at it I ran around the tree again Later on that side you know Come on You ain't interested in watching me fly over the tree later on you know Yeah Did those jokes work for the alligators too Pardon me My son is in that book You'll see him in there in Jonathan Dixon State Park catching a gator And there's multiple places he's in there where I'm rolling a gator up a up a up a ramp on there You'll see there's some great pictures in there If you take pictures of those pictures you can print them out you know but I got to copyright

them all I get a $100 each you know Yeah Yeah My daddy used to say "Son you love a lot and you lie about but you lie a lot about loving." All right that's good enough Thank you Thank you so much